Mark Waid
Mark Waid
Dirty Dozen: Mark Waid
One of the things you hope for when you try to break into the comic book business, is that when you meet the creators you’ve dreamed about meeting, they’re the kind of people you want them to be. That’s Mark Waid. I was lucky enough to work with Mark (and Andy Kubert) early in my career, on a run of Captain America. It was an incredible experience on so many levels. Aside from it being a book that I always dreamed of working on with top-level creators whose work I had been fans of for years, but I was treated with a level of respect & consideration from everyone involved, that doesn’t happen often for a ‘colorist’. The editor had organized a dinner meeting for us to all meet in person, and hammer out ideas for the run. I was so young and intimidated by these guys throwing around these amazing ideas, and even more when they’d ask me what I thought, or if I knew how to pull this or that off (specifically the new energy shield Cap was going to sport at this time). They treated me like a peer. Like I’d been doing this for years, and we were all finally working together on that project we’d been discussing for years. Except I’d only had a couple of years under my belt. No ego at the table. Just a love of comics, and a want to produce something fun and interesting.
Which is no surprise, if you consider Mark’s body of work. Mark has no ego. Just a love of comics, and a want to produce something fun and interesting. Which is why, when I first set out with this experiment, Mark was at the top of my list to answer these questions.
1- Which work do you look back on as a defining moment of your career and which do you feel was probably the most creatively challenging?
I suppose the answer to both is KINGDOM COME. I was lucky to be in the right room at the right place at the right time, and I’m glad that everyone involved seemed to think I was a good fit to give structure and cohesion to Alex Ross’s brainstorms. Creatively, I think I rose to the challenge fairly well, though not as well as I wish I had; I’m proud of a lot of moments in that story that I brought to the table, but I wish (looking back) that it had more humor to it and less of that forced-gravitas voice. Tom Peyer later did a parody of my pretentious delivery in the ill-fated Elseworlds 80-Page Giant that got pulped before it saw print, and it was a riot. But the biggest challenge--finding a narrative thread to Alex’s brilliant sketches and character designs and creating a motivation for the players--what made that extra-taxing was that, because Alex and I were collaborating so closely and because Alex is, like me, one opinionated guy, I had to be able to argue and justify and defend every choice and every line. Which made the whole narrative stronger, and was thus worthwhile, but...whew. Conversely, however, I grilled Alex on his choices almost as much as he did me with mine, so I think we both raised one another’s game.
More recently, and more successfully, the greatest creative challenge I had was the first issue of the Fantastic Four run I did with the late (and much-missed) Mike Wieringo. DC had recently been doing a few one-off “stand-alone” issues to introduce and showcase their characters, and to a one, I thought they were tin-eared. I’d become really frustrated that even the most basic of one-issue stories seemed to be missing a simple level of craft by which the writer properly introduced the characters, explained who they were and what they want, and gave them purpose in such a way that even a brand-new reader could understand everything happening. (By the way, mainstream comics still suck at that). So with FF, the self-assigned task was to show writers how I thought it should be done, what a first issue should be and what it should contain. And I never worked harder than on that one script, and God knows how it could have turned out without Mike there to realize it so spectacularly.
2- In the business of comics, we've come pretty far in creator's rights. Despite how far we've come, what do you think is the next plateau?
I kinda think we’ve plateaued, Chris. By now, everyone knows the ins and outs of work for hire, and by and large, everyone can get the creator rights they feel they deserve if they fight for them hard enough or choose the right publishing venue. The web isn’t just the ultimate democratization of the medium, allowing first-timers to stand on equal footing with veterans, it’s a way for writers and artists to circumvent print publishers altogether so that no one can demand a share of the property in return for sharing the risk and doing what the creator can’t (providing print distribution). It’s not a PROFITABLE way yet, but we’re getting there.
3- Whether it's a project of your own or someone else's, what is the one project that hasn't been published that you feel should be?
What is it with you and the good questions? Why aren’t you coloring something? Why are you showing up all the other comics reporters and their lame-ass interviews? Knock it off.
My first instinctive answer is “the adventures of Stan and Jack when they were boys.”
My second answer is “all those Superman stories I long to do,” but that will never, ever happen, so let’s stick with choice #1.
4- Because of technology, both fans and creators now have an amazing amount of access to each other with an incredible level of immediacy. How do you think the attitudes of both fans and creators have changed because of that?
“Not for the better,” he said, struggling to find the most charitable way to voice his feelings. Man, when I was 14, it never in a million years would have occurred to me to pick up a telephone, call Murray Boltinoff at DC, and tell him that his books sucked. And now...look, I appreciate that, to some small degree, internet fan access is an extension of the way Stan Lee made Marvel successful by making all the readers feel part of the family...but over time and unchecked, that’s led to the utterly false presumption among the more vocal netizens that they’re entitled to be in the room with us while we work so they can look over our shoulders and second-guess and micromanage every last little decision we make. True, the internet and message boards aren’t the only reason that fan reaction is so much more...intense than it was in years past. It’s also because customers are a lot more willing to be vocal about their complaints when they’ve paid four bucks for a comic than when they paid a quarter. And it’s because society in general is so eager and quick to rush to judgment about everything now. And it’s because it’s become so godawful important that everyone alive have not just an opinion but a LOUD, STRONG opinion about EVERY LAST LITTLE THING THEY SEE AND HEAR that we might as well just throw most critical descriptives out of the English language and stick to the only three anyone ever uses anymore: “sucks,” “meh,” and “rules.” The great thing about the internet is that everyone gets to be heard. The horrible thing about the internet is that it therefore makes everyone’s voice LOUDER.
Some creators enjoy the instantaneous reaction to their work that they can get from the internet. Not me. If that’s what I wanted from an audience, I’d be in live theater. Overestimating the importance of internet reaction to your work can be ruinous; to paraphrase and update something I said years ago, if the comics message boards really, truly were a barometer of what the overall buying public wants, then Roger Langridge and Chris Samnee’s THOR: THE MIGHTY AVENGER would have been the best-selling comic of all time.
The net’s not a totally evil, toxic wasteland. Several writers and artists have done a good job using internet fandom to help build their profile--Warren Ellis showed how it could be done, Gail Simone really put it to work to her benefit, and Mark Millar honed internet outreach to a knife’s edge. Kudos to them. They are made of sterner and more patient stuff than am I.
5- Who do you feel is one of the biggest visual influences in comics in the last two decades?
Jim Lee. Pick up any three mainstream comics at random and at least one of them is being drawn by someone very informed by Jim’s style. There have been times in the last two decades when my answer to that question would have filled me with despair, but not in this moment; Jim’s a good influence.
6- I know that in these interviews, one of the most common questions is about creative influence. I'd like to ask that question in a different way though. Which people in your life have influenced your career, either through direction and advice, providing a break, etc.?
So you mean by way of personal interaction rather than just the standard “Shakespere and Stan Lee” answer, right? Then all credit...ALL credit...goes to a man named Dick Hemby. Growing up, I never wanted to be a writer. I wanted to be a radio personality. And when I was a teenager in Richmond, Virginia in the late 1970s, Dick Hemby was the afternoon drive-time DJ on WRVA, the city’s biggest pop-music station, and he was my idol. He was funny without being wacky, he was clever and sly and super-quick and smooth, and I would listen to him every afternoon and hang on his every word. So when my school had a career day, rather than have a handful of adults come talk to us, the school had us go out into the world and talk directly with whoever had the job we wanted, and I got my one-on-one audience with Dick Hemby. And he did not disappoint. He was pleasant and gracious and listened eagerly to all my dreams and aspirations of being a radio personality and answered all my questions...
...and then, in a manner so unbelievably charming that I could not to this day tell you exactly how he did it, he told me in the most positive, uplifting, pep-talk way imaginable that it was 1978 and radio was a dead-end and that I should do something else with my life. He didn’t say it with any bitterness or derision. In fact--and again, I have no idea how--he turned what could have been a somber crushing-of-dreams rant into an inspirational speech. He was honest and, more importantly, as I saw over the next decade, he was absolutely right when he said radio DJs were a relic of times past--and I left the WRVA studios that afternoon knowing I’d damn well better find some other outlet for my creativity and confident that I could. Thanks, Mr. Hemby.
7- For the last 30 or 40 years the comics industry has supposedly been "dying". What do you think this business is lacking, and what can creators, fans, and those behind the scenes do to fill in those gaps and return comics to the healthy business it should be?
Another good question. And the long answer would choke your webserver, so let’s just go with, “We can all stop trying to cling to 20th century business practices and have the courage to redefine absolutely everything about what we do and how we do it from the ground up. And we can--because we, as a group, are more brilliantly creative than anyone in any other entertainment medium.”
8- What's the most discouraging thing you've heard or experienced while trying to get your first big break and how did you overcome it?
Chris, I’ll be absolutely honest with you and say that I have no answer to this that I can remember. I’m sure there were just as many hurdles in my way as there were for anyone else, but I’ve been so lucky for so long that they’re forgotten.
9- Whether it's the quality of material, publishing strategy, marketing, or the treatment of people- what do you think is the biggest "wrong" and the biggest "right" that you've seen in the comics business?
“Biggest wrong” is surprisingly difficult to come up with--not because I think everything’s been ducky, but because “right” and “wrong” are often the same thing at different times. For instance, maybe the biggest “wrong” ever was the way the industry, during the 1950s and 1960s with magazine prices escalating to 25 and 50 cents and more, kept comics prices as low as possible. That was a short-term “right” in that it combatted falling circulation--but it was a long-term “wrong” in that newsstands eventually dropped comics because that shelf space could be devoted to more profitable periodicals, and by the time comics raised prices enough to compete, it was too late and we’d become a niche market.
Let’s concentrate on biggest “right.” I think the comics industry, on the whole, comprises a pretty decent bunch of folks. I genuinely believe that compared to those people in other fields, there are fewer assholes per capita among comics creators. By and large, the fact that we love what we do and the fact that most of us are aware of and respectful towards those who came before us creates and sustains an energy of camaraderie and community that will help keep the medium from shattering as we make the transition to digital (and beyond).
10- There seems to be a bit of a disconnect between what comic fans think/say they want and what publishers see in buying trends. Do comics fans generally know what they want or are the publishers really giving them what they want and they just don't want to admit it?
The audience doesn’t know what it wants. If it knew what it wanted, it wouldn’t be an audience. It just knows that it wants to be entertained somehow, and that’s a perfectly reasonable expectation. I wish we were better at it. The 50,000+ hardcore fans of periodical print comics that we have left, the ones we haven’t and can’t drive away, seem to indicate with their buying patterns that they’re interested only in nostalgia, which is terrifying. And I understand why publishers cater to that; they’re kinda forced to, given that the print distribution system is targeted SOLELY TO THOSE 50,000. I can’t wait to hear what the non-hardcore audience wants; digital will tell us that. I don’t care nearly as much what “comics fans” want as I do what “potential readers” want.
11- As disposable/ consumable entertainment, how do you think comics (or publishing in general) can keep from suffering the same pitfalls as the music industry?
We can create 99-cent digital content that’s not crippled by DRM, that’s portable to any device and that’s good enough to make the audience want more of it. Full stop.
12- A few years ago, people thought getting into the book stores was going to be some big boon to comics. I think we've seen that's not entirely true. Do you think we're headed for the same thing with digital comics/ downloads? Is it ultimately help or hype?
There’s a lot of hype IN there, sure. It’s not gonna be a gold mine for everyone, and I don’t see anyone getting rich off of digital anytime soon. It’s hard to monetize, it’s hard to manage, and there’s a social media component to it that’s critical for attention and for growth of distribution. But it is--say it with me--the ONLY WAY LEFT TO GO. Print periodical comics are no longer a viable medium for anyone without the deep-pocket backing of a mega-corporation. I don’t see anyone getting rich off of digital anytime soon--but I do see, right now, today, lots of good people making enough money off of it to keep doing it, and I see the opportunity for more of us to join their ranks with every digital device sold.
Monday, May 16, 2011
In addition to thanking Mark for taking time out of his insane schedule to participate in this interview, I also want to say that being a huge fan of Dare Devil, I just can not wait to read Mark’s take on the character (along with Paolo Rivera & Marcos Martin). Knowing the kind of love that Mark brings to any project, I know this is going to go down as another of the great runs that this title has seen in the past.
As an aside, if Marvel were to ever reproduce issue #14 of Mark’s run on Captain America (with Andy Kubert) in a trade paperback, I’m sure many would love to see the original, controversial version of this issue that we all worked so hard on (I still have all my color files for this issue and I’m sure the lettered version exists somewhere).